Monday, August 13, 2012

When is “free” really “free” and Cisco admits Jabber lacks key Lync features

Cisco is pushing Jabber really hard in the market right now but they seem prepared to sacrifice the UI and customers end user experience to lock you in to their hardware platform. They do talk a good talk though so I thought in this post I would look a little deeper into what the “free” offer is in comparison to Lync Standard Cal licensing and some of the more interesting comments from a recent video Cisco posted on YouTube. 

Jabber for everyone

Jabber for everyone was announced a while back which basically promises those with a compatible (if you don’t have a CUPS capable CUCM it upgrade time) Cisco Unified Communications Manager deployment can get free IM and Presence for everyone in the organization. Sounds great or so it would appear.

To begin with let’s take a look at what Microsoft Lync Standard Cal is all about. Lync Standard Cal is traditionally bundled with Core Cal Suite. I have yet to meet a company that doesn’t own Core Cal. It’s the easiest and cheapest way to purchase Microsoft software in a bundle.

Lync Standard Cal features (available in the licensing guide):

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So how does “Jabber for everyone” compare to Standard Cal licensing?

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Features not supported in the Jabber offer:

  • Audio
  • Video
  • Desktop sharing
  • Options for phone configuration

So for these parts not included there is of course a nice upgrade license you can purchase. You will need either UCL Advanced or UWL Standard or above to these missing features on the desktop. Which according to the No Jitter article the UCL Advanced license will set you back $295 per user. According to the Cisco Licensing guide if you want these on your mobile device you will need UWL Premium or UWL Pro. Again according to the No Jitter article list for both of these start at $415 and $500 respectively. Also the amount of devices varies between licenses so best to understand that as well. All of a sudden “Free” isn't looking so hot now is it?

Before you can begin evaluating a UC offer, first you must understand your requirements today and into the future. If you have a future that includes BYOD, mobile workers, softphones, desktop video, web conferencing, audio conferencing etc,etc a free offer such as this is probably not going to work for you. Instead, you are more than likely going to have to remove the client if you decide down the road that’s it’s not really the direction you want to head down. So understanding your requirements is a critical piece of any UC decision along with pulling together the right resources whether it be engineering or key business decision makers etc.

What is Cisco willing to admit to?

During Cisco Live the UC team at Cisco recorded an interesting session titled the Real Story Behind Cisco and Microsoft Interop. The obvious message from this 18 minute video is fear Microsoft Lync and hug your Cisco investment as hard as you can. But if you sort through the marketing there are some interesting messages that Cisco admit to.

Direct SIP is the most common way used to do interoperability and provides the best UI experience.

Within minutes the first big thing Cisco admits to is Direct SIP is both the easiest way to do interoperability and the most common. Why? Because companies want to the UI experience of Lync. Not a close to or nearly as good experience, they want the Lync experience. What Cisco fail to mention here are other factors that lead companies to Lync. Like federation, web conferencing and the ROI of on-premise audio conferencing with Lync.

The con’s they mention are mainly amusing to me. It’s like they are treating engineers as if they have forgotten how to work in multi-vendor environment. Things like dual CAC and dial plans. Well guess what, if you have more than one CUCM cluster you already have dual dial plans and if you have a Cisco VCS with CUCM you most likely are already dealing with dual CAC for video and voice. So they use their own complexity as weapon against Lync which doesn’t require dual dial plans for multiple pools or different CAC policies for video. So well done to Cisco for using their own complexities to scare your customers.

CUCiLync’s UI experience is poor.

I have covered this here on VoIPNorm but under a more general discussion around plugins. Cisco aren't the only ones with the issue of a poor UI experience though. In general companies are drawn to Lync’s easy to use UI and plugins devalue that experience. At least Cisco is willing to admit that CUCiLync’s experience is poor at best.

Cisco’s Medianet doesn’t interoperate with Lync.

Cisco try’s to call out Medianet interoperability as a con but in reality I am not sure why they didn’t build Medianet to interoperate with any media stream not just those from Cisco devices. Seems it would be to their advantage to be able to work with any media not just that of Cisco’s. So I would call this a con of Medianet rather than a con of Lync that it can’t detect Lync media streams. Same can be said for their wireless products. Aruba can certainly work well with Lync but here is Cisco calling it a con. I would say it’s more a con of Cisco wireless equipment than a slight on Lync that’s it not more application aware unlike Aruba.

With Jabber you lose key Lync capabilities.

I can’t have said it better myself but Cisco said it themselves. You do loose advanced Lync features with Jabber but what they didn’t tell you wasn’t the whole story. Below are some of the advanced features they didn’t mention:

  • Outlook Web Access IM and Presence and in 2013 the ability to schedule a Lync conference
  • Desktop share, audio and video across federated partners and public IM. If you take a look at the federation directory created by Matt Landis there are 10K+ companies that are doing federation today. On a personal level I have over 150 contacts in my buddy list and at least half of them are from other companies that Microsoft has federated with. It has really enabled me to give a better level of customer service to the companies I work with by being able to easily add voice, video and desktop sharing when they reach out to me.
  • Skype federation with Lync 2013
  • · Advance Office integration
    • SharePoint skills search (one they mention but try to dismiss like no one uses it)
    • Exchange Distribution Lists
    • Rich presence beyond the four states offered by Jabber
    • E911
    • In call device selection
    • etc,etc….

Adhoc conferencing is a lesser experience on Jabber than Lync

Their words not mine. I would also add that the scheduled meeting experience is also lesser as well. I wasn’t aware of a Jabber plugin for scheduled meetings. You would need WebEx for that.

Conclusion

In the end if you’re willing to sacrifice productivity to protect a Cisco hardware investment, even despite an industry that already acknowledges is mostly moving more towards software, maybe Jabber is for you. But if you truly interested in productivity with better connectivity and relationships with your partners and customers through federation then maybe Lync is more your thing.

VoIPNorm

20 comments:

  1. Hi Norm - Great piece. Thanks for posting. One piece that doesn't feel apples to apples though - Comparing Lync Standard Cal to Jabber straight up, say with CUPS is ok. And it takes adding UCL or UWL licenses to get other Jabber features .. BUT, once you have those licenses, it also gets you MORE than what the Lync Standard Cal gives you - or at least Telephony features that Lync doesn't have ... isn't that right? You would then need to add Lync Enterprise/Voice licenses to get up to what Jabber could do. Do you see it this way?

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    1. Yes and no. So my comparison is between Jabber for everyone (lets face it Jabber for everyone is not free since you must own CUCM to begin with) and Standard Cal. Yes you are right if you step up to UCL or UWL it does get you more telephony features but if you want more than one device and Jabber desktop you are looking at Advanced UCL minimum starting at $295 list which is basically the cost of Lync Std, Ent and Plus Cal combined or close to it with unlimited devices for the licensed user. So for the cost of the Advanced UCL which does not include conferencing or mobile you could potentially own the entire Lync UC stack for as many devices as you need(Voice, video, conferencing etc,etc). So thanks for bringing that up it makes a great point.

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  2. So with the CAL that gets bundled with my enterprise agreement, I get licensed for full VoIP and video functionality at the client for my users?

    Never realised that

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    1. It will depend on your EA agreement. You may also be grandfathered into the plus cal but that is something to discuss with your LAR.

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  3. I'd like your take on this from a different direction - what if you already have the CUWL Pro licenses but no advanced Lync licensing? Is fully-loaded Jabber still inferior?

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    1. Hi Gaelyn,

      Certainly from a licensing perspective in the case you call out Lync is at a disadvantage but from a productivity or functional level Lync would still come out on top. Don’t forget that Jabber without WebEx is a weak solution. Take a look at the link I have below to see a comparison. Cisco has basically intermingled these two applications from a marketing perspective to give the impression that Jabber can do it all when that certainly is not the case. I have worked with companies that have all the Cisco licensing in the world but still choose Lync because of cost related issues with WebEx and poor Office integration of Jabber. They certainly take the perspective of it “good enough” Office integration where Microsoft takes a best in class approach for UC including Office integration.

      http://voipnorm.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/ciscos-mobility-chaos.html

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  4. Stay tuned for the next posts:
    1 Lync's phone features compared to any pbx
    2 Lync's crappy video compared to most any competitor
    3 Lync's adherence to standards (a really short post)

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    1. Super witty constructive comment. No wonder you post as Anon.

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  5. I really do struggle when I reach out and find blogs like this. On the one hand they do provide a chance to get a deeper understanding (thks Norm) but on other its so clearly anti Cisco that one has to take it with a pitch of salt. Both have Pros and Cons on what they can do and where their product development is at. Besides the feature trade offs, consideration to your current environment and licencing are key factors. MS is just as good as Cisco at selling its Cons as Pros...afterall its only software and not a solution that MS sell.

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    1. Hi Rusty,

      Thanks for your comments. I certainly don't apologies for taking a direct approach with confronting Cisco's clearly anti-Microsoft messaging. It clear Cisco is changing it direction based on Microsoft's entry into the marketplace with voice but overall its strength is its hardware no matter how hard they try to convince people otherwise. The message of its good enough software paired with Cisco hardware is not the solution everyone wants. As customers keep reminding me they aren't known for their end user software.

      Cheers
      Chris

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  6. The really obvious point is that Microsoft has a much better soft client than Cisco on the desktop. It is the #1 primary argument in Lync vs Cisco. So much so that surprised that Cisco has done such a very poor job in getting their client up to date...very poor. Jabber is looking really good, they just need to get it out faster. If they would just accelerate development here, most of the arguments would fall on deaf ears...that being said it's not the case.

    The Dual Dial Plan argument for interop is true. To be honest most people will use dual with VCS, but the VCS dial plan is so small it's laughable (very few endpoints), and many people register telepresence direct to CUCM for single dialplan/CAC. This is a real problem for Cisco - Lync integration. For large or even moderately sized clients with complex network infrastructure, you are maintaining not only two dial plans and CAC systems, but learning two technology sets and managing two media resource strategies. Single vendor Cisco or Microsoft definitely avoids this (even in multi-cluster Cisco or CUCM to CME architectures you can use EIGRP to propagate dial plans for auto discovery, which really means you only program one large dial plan).

    The really nice thing about Cisco CAC is it's use of RSVP for unified video and voice CAC. For example, I have a client with a DMVPN cloud, two mpls clouds, a hub and spoke vpn cloud (users and small office). Once this all adds up...including redundant paths, true Bandwidth CAC utilization measurement is crazy complex without RSVP agents. RSVP agents track video and voice separately and really elegantly and allows for seamless fall back to voice when lacking video bandwidth..so I would argue against your claim of separate CAC for voice and video. RSVP also handles mid call escalation and conferencing CAC really elegantly.

    Microsoft's edge server setup is very nice and is wins over the current Cisco anyconnect strategy in my opinion, but we really need a true non hub and spoke solution from both vendors to save bandwidth on mobile to mobile calls.

    I will say that despite all weaknesses, cisco mobile/tablet suite is really superior to Lync's. Their webex client alone is simply fantastic, and it integrates almost auto magically with their jabber mobile clients which provide chat and VOIP over 3G/4G or wifi. That combined with a pretty nicely thought out hand off strategy for desk phone to mobile (automated with no user interaction), makes it the clear mobile winner. Cisco's blackberry solution has been fantastic for years (but who cares about BB anymore).

    Microsoft definitely doesn't have the large enterprise features needed for highly complex scenarios, but as long as they continue to improve edge services and maintain their soft client dominance, they will have a strong argument in the small to mid size. They are still hurt by weak hardware phone support and their insistence on not supporting multiple video and audio codecs for legacy integration. It is simply too expensive to integrate Lync into legacy video conferencing deployments (and with no g729 support it is difficult to integrate into existing voip systems without taking a transcoder $$ hit). If someone has legacy H263 and or a mix of H264 video conferencing already in place, it's extremely easy to drop a Cisco system in and integrate it fully...this is impressive to customers upgrading from a legacy PBX with stand alone video conferencing. Telling people to simply forklift is not convincing, when Cisco can simply counter with a show and tell of their own forklift solution.

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  7. Back on the true subject of Lync Standard vs Jabber for everyone, the truth is not so apparent. To me Jabber for everyone is not a real competitor, it's simply a free bonus so that you can assign unlimited...let me say that again, unlimited additional chat users to your org for free. The standard CAL for Lync is not free, you pay for it with your Microsoft user CAL. So for your legion of non Microsoft users (mac or mobile/ipad users), you will still need to get a CAL ($$) for their accounts. As we see more customers move to BYOD style deployments for phones and even laptops...this is an important distinction. So to make it apples to apples, for every non microsoft user you could buy a core cal and have a very nice soft client, with no enterprise phone functionality...or you could purchase a Cisco CUWL/UCL license with full enterprise voice/video and chat functionality for a similar price. Now that Cisco includes a full jabber license (including mobile jabber and mobile connect) with CUWL/UCL they have really changed the conversation (ignore UCL basic as the price is too cheap to be involved in this conversation).

    Of course it can never be an apples to apples comparison, as the conferencing models are completely different between Microsoft and Cisco, as are the add ons included, so it can simply go back and forth. In fact now that CUCM Business edition 6000 includes basically every Cisco product in the price...and I mean even VCS and singlewire paging for free, it's really hard to compare. Heck they even throw in VMware licenses and the provisioning manager. I think this is the product that is REALLY targeting Lync.

    Really the only way to determine things is to do a ROM or RFP for each individual customer head to head. You will still probably end up with pluses and minuses for both products. The key point is, comparing Jabber for everyone to Lync Standard is not at all a fair comparison and does not tell the whole story.

    Now that I've typed a novel, I'm going to eat dinner. Enjoy my typos and poor grammar.

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  8. For clarification, in the above I commented on "no Microsoft users", but this really means contractors, subs who have their own Microsoft laptops as well (they aren't on your CALs). For them you have to purchase a CAL or UCL/CUWL...which for a similar cost gets you more with Cisco. This is where Jabber for everyone can be handy. 90% or more of our customer's mobile end users only need chat and cell phone (and prefer it that way). If they are doing screen sharing or video conferencing its in meetings, only one user on the webex needs an actual license. So the true apples to apples is almost impossible to make in this regard, every client is a snowflake.

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    1. To be honest you could have saved your self a lot of work and just stayed with this statement "The really obvious point is that Microsoft has a much better soft client than Cisco on the desktop".

      I am not going to say anything else since you summed it up nice in your first sentence.

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  9. Thanks Chris for starting a REALLY great discussion about this thou the comparison you made was pretty much BS, sorry.

    Not everyone holds MS Core CAL's - really..

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    1. I have yet to meet a large customer that doesn't. Maybe in SMB its less prevalent but large customers its a must have if your going to use Microsoft services and software if only because of the amount of money it saves you over buying standalone
      .

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  10. Its funny how your quoting pricing for CUCM and saying its just for jabber functionality. You say most enterprise customers have a core license for Microsoft. That may be true I don't know. What I do know is most enterprise customers understand that Lync is not an enterprise product. Even Microsoft partners know once you start adding video and true collaboration Lync goes out the window. Especially if your already running Cisco call control. I don't think it will take you much research on the internet to discover that the majority of enterprise customers are running Cisco all control.

    Also you have so many statements in here that are not true I stopped counting. I normally really enjoy posts like this because its good for the competition. I would suggest getting your facts straight before making all these claims though..

    Personally I think Microsoft missed the boat here. Lync should have been geared towards the home user and under 50 employee business. I truly feel eventually that's the only place it will exist.

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    1. Hi,

      You really just made a bunch of general statements that don't add up to much. I work with over 50 large enterprise customers in my region and over 80% are running either Lync or OCS. This maybe with Cisco or Avaya or other call control platforms but using Lync/OCS in some capacity and in a lot cases voice. This includes an enterprise with over 120K users using a cross section of features inclduign voice. So I am not sure what you class as enterprise capable but I would certainly think this fits the bill.

      If you want to come back with facts to back up your statements feel free to do so. I will admit that probably the feature list has changed along with licensing since I orignally did this post but feel free to point out where that is. Cisco like any other competitor is constantly improving their products so things will change as has Lync with the release of 2013.

      I also encourage you to post your name and current position rather than stay as Anon. Seems people are much more daring to write baseless statements when they can hide.



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  11. Nice article though documenting features that are PC to PC are pretty much useless.

    I have never worked in an organisation where a requirement fro PC to PC video was considered in their requirements for UC.

    People need to communicate to the outside world. People want integration with their current PBX and handsets..start adding the costs of integrating Lync with gateways and PBXs and your story will change shape pretty quickly.

    The prices you have mentioned for Cisco licenses are RRP, everyone knows that enterprise don't pay RRP. I recently received a quote to upgrade our customer to Adv UCL for $10 per user.

    You also seem to have missed the huge investment most companies have made in IP telephony and Video Conferencing.

    I like the Lync solution though it is definitely not free when comparing it to Cisco's UC solution.

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  12. Your articles make whole sense of every topic.
    reverse lookup

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